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Two Minds on Spirituality

August 25, 2012

While I am in between blog posts, I thought that I would interest my readers by showing them a conversation that I recently had with fellow wordpress blogger, Sagacity Plateau.

While in search of a new and interesting blog, I stumbled onto Sagacity Plateau’s and the first post I read immediately sparked my interest. With my interest came a simple question that turned into an interesting exchange of ideas, much like the kind of exchanges I hope to provoke in many of my posts to come.

The discussion I am about to post looks at spirituality, with a focus on the question: Can one be truly atheist, and spiritual. I am not sure if we came to agree with eachother completely by the end of this, but the discussion was definately enjoyable for both of us.

For those of you looking for some interesting posts that will give the mind plenty to ponder, I encourage you to read his blog here, http://sagacityplateau.wordpress.com/.

I will begin by posting the post of his that sparked the conversation, followed by each of our comments word for word. Enjoy!

The Truth

People always want the quick fix for life problems. It is in our nature. So many turn to books to try and gain a solution. This is why we have religion. Confusion is the lack of understanding. They scour the pages for words to provide a quick fix by comprehending someone elses understanding and using it as their own. Normally once satisfied, time passes and the problem reoccurs. This is because your nature to not want to have to think has prevented you from filling the void of your questions in the first place. You have become unknowingly self defeating; no thinking required.

See, as a single being, you are who you are and nothing from the outside can change that; it could influence, but never change it. So the answers to your own happiness doesn’t fall with the text and ect. of someone elses understanding, but within the understanding of ones self. I believe the path to God; we all believe in the same God; but the path to God is in no book for you to gain insight, but is within understanding. It is within true self enlightenment that we find the true keys to life. From within…………..thats jus how I feel about it lol

Comments:

Mind Conscious:

I am still left a little curious after reading, are you religious?

Sagacity Plateau:

Yes, I am spiritual above being the lesser “religious”. Are you religious?

MC:

I am not religious. I am an atheist, However, I do believe in spiritual experience. I just do not believe that the experience is “mystical” or outside of the purview of natural order.

SP:

I do understand. You know than you can reach a level of spirituality that is beyond what “religions” teach. To me, no one is truly “atheist”, but just do not accept the training programs of “religions”. There is no way to be truly “atheist” and spiritual at the same time. I do respect your beliefs. Being spiritual, I do have friends that are Atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Wiccans, and more (Except Satanist lol, though I have known some and have even read parts of their “bible” out of curiosity). I am able to go to cathedrals, covenants, mosque, temples and ect. without guilt and all. I do not worship of course, but I can be there and get invited often to many religious events. Engage that spiritual side of you, lose the titles and be what we are all meant to be; free. Sorry for the long reply.

MC:

Not a problem. I think for the sake of experience, attending a church service can be interesting. I am curious about what you mean when you say that there is no way to be truly atheist and spiritual at the same time, because at face value, I disagree. We may be defining each term differently. Could you elaborate on that?

SP:

Buckle up. Well per my understanding, Atheism is the “belief” of no deity or like you said “mystical” beings. Yet you said that you believe in “spiritual experiences”. Spiritual experiences is the result of the existence, or acknowledgement knowingly or unknowingly of the theological “heart” aka “soul” aka many other things lol. You can not have one without the other. Atheism rejects mans created and general training of “religions”. What mans training doesn’t do is tell humans who they truly are.

Did you know that everything in the known universe is made from the exact same base products…everything. Did you also know that there is an energy that moves Everything in the known universe. Now take away ambitious mens desire for control and religions. If we are all
“creations”(humans,stars,animals,dirt,ect)(which we are) via evolution which has many facts or other chosen beliefs, and ALL things require and use this SAME energy, then one must assume that the energy is “God” and we truly ARE a piece of God. “All things were created in Gods image”; not physically, but in Essence.

Embrace that spirituality that you feel and embrace God and there will be no need for human titles….if you choose

MC:

I hope that you are buckled up and ready because after my response, I would like to guide you to an article on this matter, so you should have plenty to read here.

You claim that spiritual experience is the EXISTENCE of the theological “heart”, “soul”, etc. This is not true.

Let us not forget the meaning of the word spirit which comes from the latin spiritus, which is derived from the Greek term pneuma, meaning breath.

Throughout history, the term spiritual has been held hostage by the religions of the world to take on supernatural meanings. This does not need to be the case, as you appear to think that it does.

Spiritual experience does not require the mystical, or the “theological heart” at all. I have a great passion for science and the universe that I am apart of. Simply with my knowledge and understanding of my conscious experience in the universe (thanks in large parts to my learning from theoretical physicists and those of the like), something as simple as looking into the night sky, even a sun rise or sun set (really any point in the day), feeling a breeze flow around me, I can feel so incredibly connected to the everything that I can be just about brought to tears. None of these emotions need the aid of the supernatural, or any hope of anything more than what is.

That is just a brief example. Many of my other “spiritual experiences” comes from a greater understanding of what is. There is a lot to know about the universe and everything in it. I will never understand it all, but I continue to grow, and it is moments like that for me when I truly have the feeling of what the religious might consider “ascension.”

In closing, I would like to quote physicist Lawrence Krauss; “Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust.”

It is things like this that I find my spiritual experience. And that is just the tip of the iceburg. I don’t need to call it God, I have a passion for knowledge and what is. That is what I consider spiritual experience.

Here is a link to an article on this subject which adds another two cents but worth reading:

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/a-plea-for-spirituality

SP:

I definitely will read those two articles. When I say “spiritual” I do not mean spiritual as in supernatural, but spiritual as in a level of deeper understanding of the universe and the place of all beings in it. When I say “God” I do not mean “God” as in a supernatural God but “God” as in where all things get their essence as I mentioned. Science still has a long way to go in understanding the dynamics of the human mind and I realize that through the continued advancement in neuroscience we will ultimately figure out the “magic” of the human mind which for all intensive purposes is what makes up what can be considered the soul. When I say “we” I mean we as in scientist as I am a biotech major with the ultimate goal of a focus in genetics and steam cell research. The soul, regardless of beliefs, scientifically speaking could very well be considered the “mechanism” of cognition or vise versa. Yes, simply put we are stardust, and that is what I mentioned as well when I said that ALL things are made up of the same base chemicals. To sum up all that I am saying and have said; it is the energy that is the essence. It is the energy that I consider “God” or “the source”. And it is this energy that scientifically moves everything. If time and space is truly infinite, then “God”/”The source” is indeed the Alpha and the Omega.

I would like to make a post of our conversation in a question and answer format. Do you mind? If you would like me to not use WP handle let me know. If you don’t mind me using your WP handle let me know as well.

MC:

Yes, I was hoping to be able to do the same on my page. I think this was a great exchange.

I would like to point out that even with your interpretation of God and spiritual, my arguement that one can be truly atheist (which I am) and spiritual still stands.

I would also like to put this onto my page, I would like to post your original blog that sparked this conversation in order for readers on my page to have a fuller understanding of our discussion. After that I will simply apply each comment word for word from each of us. Are you okay with this?

Lastly, I really enjoyed this sharing of ideas. I think that it still has room for continued pondering, yet was satisfying in the conclusions that I believe one can draw from the conversation. Thank you.

SP:

Yes, it has been a great exchange of information and you may use the conversation for your blog.

MC:

Thank you 🙂

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2 Comments
  1. Spot on with this write-up, I honestly believe this website needs much more attention. I’ll probably be back again to read more, thanks for the information!

  2. Thank you 🙂 I hope to hear your insights as well to add any thoughts to a discussion 🙂

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